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Тема: TRD images on HDD

  1. #1
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    По умолчанию TRD images on HDD

    What format of HDD use russian clones ? (smuc interface, etc...)
    Is supported only TRD images ?

    VELESOFT

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    С любовью к вам, Yandex.Direct
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    Цитата Сообщение от VELESOFT Посмотреть сообщение
    What format of HDD use russian clones ? (smuc interface, etc...)
    ATM, NEMO (2 different formats), and SMUC.
    Цитата Сообщение от VELESOFT Посмотреть сообщение
    Is supported only TRD images ?
    No, not only TRD. Some clones (such as ATM Turbo 2+, Profi...) have support of CP/M. Also OS TASiS was developed (only for ATM). IS-DOS can be installed on almost every russian clone (exclude weird old ones). All this OS' support HDD and have they own file system. It's possible to keep TRD images on HDD and run it when you want to. In case of ATM you can put TRD image on RAM disk and start special version of TR-DOS which supports RAM disk.
    Последний раз редактировалось Adramelek; 25.10.2008 в 04:08.

  4. #3
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    По умолчанию

    Цитата Сообщение от Adramelek Посмотреть сообщение
    ATM, NEMO (2 different formats), and SMUC.No, not only TRD. Some clones (such as ATM Turbo 2+, Profi...) have support of CP/M. Also OS TASiS was developed (only for ATM). IS-DOS can be installed on almost every russian clone (exclude weird old ones). All this OS' support HDD and have they own file system. It's possible to keep TRD images on HDD and run it when you want to. In case of ATM you can put TRD image on RAM disk and start special version of TR-DOS which supports RAM disk.
    And what is format of HDD ?
    IDE medium can be formatted as FAT 16/32 or use dirrerent file system (only for ZX) ?
    Can be same HDD used for PC and for ZX (russian clones) ?
    All disk images(TRD) is conected in one big block(file) ?
    Is supported SCL files ?
    Any support for loading TAP,Z80,SNA ?
    Is on HDD used TRD images with different size(longer or less) than 640kB ?

    OK, with HDD can work only special TR-DOS roms with modified ramdisk support, but on HDD will not work software used #3D2F (as on my SPRINTER 2000 with HDD support)

    VELESOFT
    Последний раз редактировалось VELESOFT; 25.10.2008 в 12:44.

  5. #4
    Activist Аватар для Adramelek
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    Цитата Сообщение от VELESOFT Посмотреть сообщение
    And what is format of HDD ?
    IDE medium can be formatted as FAT 16/32 or use dirrerent file system (only for ZX) ?
    I just said that: "All this OS' support HDD and have they own file system." Of course it's not FAT, but some tools allow you to use FDD in MS-DOS format.
    Цитата Сообщение от VELESOFT Посмотреть сообщение
    Can be same HDD used for PC and for ZX (russian clones) ?
    Unreal Speccy supports real HDDs.
    Цитата Сообщение от VELESOFT Посмотреть сообщение
    All disk images(TRD) is conected in one big block(file) ?
    I don't think so. Why it would be like that?
    Цитата Сообщение от VELESOFT Посмотреть сообщение
    Is supported SCL files ?
    Any support for loading TAP,Z80,SNA ?
    No, any OS have no native support of any of these files (include TRD). You can use TRD images only with help of some special tools such as TRDEXE.COM for CP/M. If you want to load TAP or SNA, you probably need to write your own software for that. Maybe somebody already did it, but I'm not sure.
    Цитата Сообщение от VELESOFT Посмотреть сообщение
    Is on HDD used TRD images with different size(longer or less) than 640kB ?
    TRDEXE.COM supports IMG images with size less than 640 Kb. TRD images -- standart size only AFAIK.
    Цитата Сообщение от VELESOFT Посмотреть сообщение
    OK, with HDD can work only special TR-DOS roms with modified ramdisk support, but on HDD will not work software used #3D2F (as on my SPRINTER 2000 with HDD support)
    You need to talk with Max Timonin about that: max_timonin@mail.ru. He's the guy who know everything about CP/M, IS-DOS, and TASiS for ATM Turbo clone.
    Последний раз редактировалось Adramelek; 25.10.2008 в 23:46.

  6. #5
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    Цитата Сообщение от Adramelek Посмотреть сообщение
    I just said that: "All this OS' support HDD and have they own file system." Of course it's not FAT, but some tools allow you to use FDD in MS-DOS format.
    Original ZX with MB02 interface use also real MS-DOS 1.8MB !!! FDD(HD FDD).
    http://translate.google.cz/translate...hl=cs&ie=UTF-8
    http://www.8bc.com/sinclair/DOWNLOAD/index.htm

    Цитата Сообщение от Adramelek Посмотреть сообщение
    No, any OS have no native support of any of these files (include TRD). You can use TRD images only with help of some special tools such as TRDEXE.COM for CP/M.
    This only transport TRD image from HDD to real FDD or RAMDISK ? Direct access to IDE device is more usable(and need only modified trdos without any convertor)

    Цитата Сообщение от Adramelek Посмотреть сообщение
    If you want to load TAP or SNA, you probably need to write your own software for that.
    This software exist from year 2002. It is DEMFIR - system for czech DIVIDE interface. For use with any other ZX clones need only three(or two) 16kB ram pages in memory space 0-16383. System contain comfortable NMI menu with real CD-ROM support. Support also work with ISO images on HDD/CF, TAP,TZX,SNA,Z80,SCR loading.

    DEMFIR use different IDE ports than russian IDE interfaces, but source code is free

    Exist more other systems for DIVIDE interface:
    http://www.divide.cz/?x=info

    For use with russian clones is best system FATWARE:

    This is comfortable disk browser with FAT16 support(also support 4GB FAT16 partitions supported by WIN XP). Can load any TAP,SNA,Z80,SCR and DITHVIDE(2x6912 bytes long file = interlace two videorams) files. For use with any other ZX clones need only three(or two) 16kB ram pages in memory space 0-16383.

    Цитата Сообщение от Adramelek Посмотреть сообщение
    TRD images -- standart size only AFAIK.
    But standard size of SINGLE SIDE/80 TRK disk is 320kB, SINGLE SIDE/40 TRK disk is 160kB, etc...

    VELESOFT
    Последний раз редактировалось VELESOFT; 26.10.2008 в 01:22.

  7. #6
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    Цитата Сообщение от VELESOFT Посмотреть сообщение
    This only transport TRD image from HDD to real FDD or RAMDISK ? Direct access to IDE device is more usable(and need only modified trdos without any convertor)
    You can find some commanders for TR-DOS such as HDD v2.0 and HDD Commander v1.2f. I think they have support of NEMO interface and TR-DOS format. But actually I know nothing about it, so you better ask another guy.
    Цитата Сообщение от VELESOFT Посмотреть сообщение
    This software exist from year 2002.
    It's pretty cool, but since nobody using cassette tapes in Russia, almost every piece of software existed was converted to TRD or SCL. May be somebody in Russia need to load TZX from HDD, but I never heard about such of thing.
    Цитата Сообщение от VELESOFT Посмотреть сообщение
    But standard size of SINGLE SIDE/80 TRK disk is 320kB, SINGLE SIDE/40 TRK disk is 160kB, etc...
    320 Kb? 160 Kb? I'm not sure it's standart anymore.

    P.S. BTW, what are you trying to tell me? What is this all about? It is some kind of advertisement?
    Последний раз редактировалось Adramelek; 26.10.2008 в 02:22.

  8. #7
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    Цитата Сообщение от Adramelek Посмотреть сообщение
    It's pretty cool, but since nobody using cassette tapes in Russia, almost every piece of software existed was converted to TRD or SCL.
    TRD and SCL is standard in Russia, but is very hard find games/files on more TRD images Each TAP/Z80/SNA file use true name and contain only one game/utility. This files sorted by name on HDD with FAT16 is very appropriate solution. With FAT browser you can very fast find any software on FAT16 (same as in ZX emulators on PC). Which way you use for software finding if you have on HDD only disk images ? One image for one game ?(= big size). TAP files is best for game loading. And TRDOS disk is best for work (load/save files)

    Цитата Сообщение от Adramelek Посмотреть сообщение
    May be somebody in Russia need to load TZX from HDD, but I never heard about such of thing.320 Kb? 160 Kb? I'm not sure it's standart anymore.
    TR-DOS support 4 standard formats of disk.
    40trk/ss
    40trk/ds
    80trk/ss
    80trk/ds

    TZX files can be used for custom tape loaders(fast loading) and for original speed. DEMFIR support only loading TZX files with standard tape speed.

    Цитата Сообщение от Adramelek Посмотреть сообщение
    P.S. BTW, what are you trying to tell me? What is this all about? It is some kind of advertisement?
    I write TR-DOS emulator for real ZX machines with IDE support.
    http://velesoft.speccy.cz/other/trdo...r_for_mb02.zip

    VELESOFT
    Последний раз редактировалось VELESOFT; 26.10.2008 в 02:51.

  9. #8
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    Цитата Сообщение от VELESOFT Посмотреть сообщение
    TRD and SCL is standard in Russia, but is very hard find games/files on more TRD images
    Well, it's not hard for me. What you want to find? If it is not some crap or junk, you'll find it anyway.
    Цитата Сообщение от VELESOFT Посмотреть сообщение
    Each TAP/Z80/SNA file use true name and contain only one game/utility. This files sorted by name on HDD with FAT16 is very appropriate solution. With FAT browser you can very fast find any software on FAT16 (same as in ZX emulators on PC). Which way you use for software finding if you have on HDD only disk images ? One image for one game ?(= big size). TAP files is best for game loading. And TRDOS disk is best for work (load/save files)
    This way probably (OS TASiS):

    Цитата Сообщение от VELESOFT Посмотреть сообщение
    TR-DOS support 4 standard formats of disk.
    40trk/ss
    40trk/ds
    80trk/ss
    80trk/ds
    Yeah, but not so many peoples using 40trk/ss or something like that. AFAIK, the size of RAM disk in CP/M and TASiS -- 640 Kb. If you want original size of file (not 640 Kb), you can convert SCL image to IMG. Anyway, it all depends what kind of clone you own. Profi clone probably will not let you use something like SCL or IMG images since it's no software for such formats (but I'm not sure).
    Цитата Сообщение от VELESOFT Посмотреть сообщение
    I write TR-DOS emulator for real ZX machines with IDE support.
    http://velesoft.speccy.cz/other/trdo...r_for_mb02.zip
    Sounds interesting. What you using it for?

    P.S. If you load TAP file on your DEMFIR, can you save high score table in game?
    Последний раз редактировалось Adramelek; 26.10.2008 в 04:32.

  10. #9
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    Цитата Сообщение от Adramelek Посмотреть сообщение
    Well, it's not hard for me. What you want to find? If it is not some crap or junk, you'll find it anyway.
    For example:
    I download any archives of TRD images from internet. But I can see only names of one image always. And each TRD image contain more games/utilities. This is unusable for fast finding software. I must in emulator (or in spectrum navigator) open each TRD image and search file. Short TRD image is way ? If I choose support only TRD images, I can create new TRD with only one program/game and delete free unused space after last used sector (to end). This is best for using with HDD => size of each TRD image will similar as size of game(similar as TAP size).
    ftp://ftp.worldofspectrum.org/pub/si...s/TRDCUT11.zip

    Цитата Сообщение от Adramelek Посмотреть сообщение
    Yeah, but not so many peoples using 40trk/ss or something like that. If you want original size (not 640 Kb), you can convert SCL image to IMG.
    Where I find structure about IMG format ? TRD is better than SCL/HOBETA. Contain sector copy, no files data only

    Цитата Сообщение от Adramelek Посмотреть сообщение
    It depends what kind of clone you own.Sounds interesting. What you using it for?
    This is software emulator of KR1818VG93 ( WD1793 ) controller !!! Original code of TRDOS is same, only instructions OUT and IN is replaced by JP EMUL. Emulation routine use software filter that detect command type for FDC controller. And low level routine read/write trdos sector from/to HDD/CF.
    With this emulation method will work also russian software with incorrect trdos calling ( jp #3D2F ).

    VELESOFT

    Добавлено через 19 минут
    Цитата Сообщение от Adramelek Посмотреть сообщение
    P.S. If you load TAP file on your DEMFIR, can you save high score table in game?
    No, this is very hard for implementation. If you use save to TAP file, each new saved file will add after last file (no rewrited, only add). This version of DEMFIR and FATWARE support only read from FAT. This is designed specially for game playing
    DEMFIR = Desktop EMulator FIles Runner
    Demfir is designed for using real CD-ROM(DVD), but can work also with any ISO image on HDD/CF. But exist new version of DEMFIR OS with write support !!! This version need 40kB (=more ram pages in low 16kB)

    System FATWARE v0.12 is old version with read only FAT support (same as DEMFIR). Is usable only for game playing.
    SAVE hi-score is supported in disk games only. This games is only for use with disk. 99.999 % of TAP/TZX games not use SAVE feature.
    In development is new version of FATWARE OS with write support...
    Последний раз редактировалось VELESOFT; 13.02.2010 в 02:26. Причина: Добавлено сообщение

  11. #10
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    Diamond....coder from exAreasoft, some time ago he wrote correction for trdos for possibility of work with hdd. But at present the project is not finished. There is a full documentation with all coments on alteration. An essence that it has given the chance to work trdos with hdd. Without everyones rom-disk`s. in idea he used a trd image on fat hdd. to load and work with image it used a commander...but...not finished(((
    I hope that it will transfer it to me or still to somebody for work continuation.
    0A заповедей:
    I. Не удаляй каталог свой.
    II. Не удаляй до времени ни одного файла.
    III. Не кради файлы.
    IV. Не желай программы ближнего своего.
    V. Почитай BDOS и BIOS как родителей своих ...

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