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Просмотр полной версии : wanted - ZS Scorpion 256/1024 Turbo PCB



Shockwav3
18.05.2019, 00:19
Hey there,
where would be the best place to find such a PCB? As of now a Scorpion is the only "main" clone I'm still missing.
Is this board still available for sale anywhere? https://c.radikal.ru/c03/1806/2d/09d17c8f5114.jpg

krotan
18.05.2019, 00:32
Is this board still available for sale anywhere? https://c.radikal.ru/c03/1806/2d/09d17c8f5114.jpg
This board is made by Pavel Ryabtsov. https://vk.com/id18110958
There was a one-time release of it.
It contains many errors and is not recommended to be repeated.
Because errors are not eliminated until now.

Shockwav3
18.05.2019, 00:45
Ah, he sells under the name "pcbsale-ru" on eBay, doesn't he? I got my Pentagon48 board from him ... had a few errors as well, but it's working nicely nowadays after fixing it.
Which version would be recommended these days?

krotan
18.05.2019, 01:00
Ah, he sells under the name "pcbsale-ru" on eBay, doesn't he? I think it's not him, and reseller.
I recently produced a small batch of PCBs that are a copy of the original Scorpion ZS 256 turbo (green scorpion). But they are over. There were a few small mistakes. This summer I plan to release another small batch of such bug fixes. Did you know that to build this board you need to have several deficient components?

Shockwav3
18.05.2019, 01:48
What do you mean by "deficient components"? If you mean domestic, russian parts like the VG93 and KT361/KT315 I have a stock of those.
Will your version use GAL chips instead of PROMs?

krotan
18.05.2019, 12:20
What do you mean by "deficient components"? K565RT11 (or GAL instead of it), ep220pc (or GAL instead of it), soviet edge connectors (can be replaced by SL-62), K561LN1...

Will your version use GAL chips instead of PROMs? This is possible to the same extent as with the original Scorpion PCB.
https://i109.fastpic.ru/thumb/2019/0518/89/_c9f11ee65e56fa47bc59d8a118d37089.jpeg (https://fastpic.ru/view/109/2019/0518/_c9f11ee65e56fa47bc59d8a118d37089.jpg.html)

Shockwav3
18.05.2019, 14:12
Board looks great :)
But yeah, I should have all those parts. There are also 60 pin edge connectors available on eBay and a friend of mine has a few for spares.
K561LN1 I had some issues with on my Pentagon48, but it turned out that they can be replaced with 74HC04 and work as intended (I should also have some K561LN1 just in case).

krotan
18.05.2019, 15:12
But yeah, I should have all those parts. Thank you. The problem is that modern edge connectors have a pitch of 2.54 mm and Soviet ones are 2.5 mm.
In case I will supply the PCB, I can attach some rare components. In another case, I can put a plate assembly or the computer assembly.

Shockwav3
18.05.2019, 15:56
Ah yeah, that slot measurement could actually be an issue (I've previously noticed that those would still fit when you use some light force), since the pitch would also apply to the cards being used (I do intend to use a SMUC + GS on a Scorpion).
Personally I don't mind assembling computers myself, but i'll double check in case there are any ICs which are hard to get (1533 are virtually impossible to get here and the 74ALS counterparts are sometimes quite expensive) - thanks for the offer :)
Any timeplan yet, when you'll have the PCBs ready?

krotan
18.05.2019, 16:54
OK

Any timeplan yet, when you'll have the PCBs ready? Now I have to do some work on fixing the board drawings. Then order the manufacture of PCBs. Then check. I think all this will take two months.
In addition, I have a SMUC and a PS/2-keyboard controller in my work.

Shockwav3
19.05.2019, 00:47
Great :) No hurry, I'm currently quite caught up with my own projects. 2-3 months from now would be perfect.
SMUC and keyboard controller sound great as well.

Labrador
19.05.2019, 07:17
Раз пошла такая пьянка, спрошу. Платы будешь для себя заказывать или на продажу? Если на продажу, то чистые платы или наборы для сборки? :)

fomonster
19.05.2019, 14:35
I have this board. And i start it well. And as i know, not only me. It has numerous problems but much of them easy solved just now. If you want i can translate this list for you.
https://zx-pk.ru/threads/9195-scorpion-zs-256-turbo-restored/page18.html?highlight=scorpion+256

Актуальный список правок чёрной платы:

1) Шелкография убрать 555 (т.к. они все 1533).
2) Шелкография D2 рядом с кварцем 555ТМ2 заменить на 531ТМ2 (или оставить 555 не перепутать с D42).
3) Конденсаторы между AY и ZX-BUS SL62 слотами сдвинуть ближе к AY на 2 мм (мешают установке слотов)
4) GAL16V8D сдвинуть на 1 мм в сторону процессора (панелька мешает установке слота с корпусом как у дисковода)
5) Шелкография заменить 555ЛП11 на КП11 в двух местах
6) Шелкография D70 не 555ЛН2, а 561ЛН2
7) Шелкография резистора R58 цепи блокировки ПЗУ (между слотами ZXBUS SL62 одинокий резистор ближе к АУ) - должен быть 220 Ом, а не 560
8) Шелкография резистор R67 в цепи обслуживания Главной Кнопки Скорпиона Magic - он указан на шелкографии как 7,5кОм, а должен быть 27кОм (резистор рядом с D69)
9) GAL ProfROM ноги 1, 2 и 15 отрезать от существующих связей (4 надреза) и подцепить к 22, 3 и 29 ногам ПЗУ соответственно (только 2-ю нельзя просто взять и отрезать т.к. там есть связь между слоями платы 5 нога Z80 на 3 ногу КП11 D44 нужно её восстановить) - всего 4 проводка снизу платы
10) Увеличить отверстия КТ315, КТ361
11) Шелкография D45 должен быть КП12 (рядом с SL-62 слотом)
12) Должен быть диод от 21 вывода GAL Turbo до 24 вывода процессора (катодом к GAL). (Снизу платы площадка под SMD компонент)
13) Резистор отмеченный 330 рядом с индуктивностью должен быть 33 Ома (иначе питание на ВГ93 будет падать до 5-6 вольт)
14) Шелкография конденсатор С3 1n к 13 ноге D9 и на землю. Отверстия на плате есть рядом с 7-й ногой D33. Без него turbo режим выключается непредсказуемо.

Also i can make photo of my board to you.

P.S. Если у кого-то есть планы по изготовлению платок с исправлениями. Я с удовольствием поучаствую) Пару плат возьму ещё. Если продадите, пожалуйста)

И, кстати, если кто-то будет править плату. Прошу обратите пожалуйста внимание на дорожки питания к слотам расширений. У меня они все погорели в процессе подключения всяких устройств к скорпиону. Пришлось восстанавливать перемычками. Уж очень они тонкие получились. Скорее всего и до микросхем тоже не достаточно толстые дорожки, но это не точно. Просто предположение. Т.к. сейчас скорпион работает прекрасно.

krotan
20.05.2019, 00:09
Платы будешь для себя заказывать или на продажу? Если на продажу, то чистые платы или наборы для сборки? :) Меньше пяти-десяти плат не заказать, мне столько не надо. Излишки буду предлагать другим. В прошлый раз заказал 5 плат, одну собрал себе, остальные разошлись через барахолку. Есть информация, что 3 платы из 5 собраны и работают, одна собрана и в отладке, одна по-видимому до сих пор лежит несобранная у купившего. Наборы вряд ли комплектовать буду, у меня нет стабильных источников поставки недорогих деталей, но буду рад, если кто-либо этим займётся. Могу укомплектовать платы некоторыми дефицитными элементами, например прошитыми РТшками.

Shockwav3
20.05.2019, 18:19
I actually checked yesterday ... can you give some examples for Demos that need Scorpion (Turbo+) timing?
I only managed to find a few ones, of which most had a setup for multicolor or were ported to Pentagon timings already.
With this being pretty much the only demo that requires Scorpion Turbo+ timings (video recording on the page is broken): https://www.zxaaa.net/view_demo.php?id=3394

krotan
20.05.2019, 21:18
I understand this badly ... I only know that the Scorpion timings correspond to the original ZX Spectrum 128 and do not correspond to the Pentagon. Maybe in the future it will be possible to envisage switching the scorpion to the Pentagon timings, but for the time being I am only concerned with troubleshooting.

Shockwav3
21.05.2019, 01:25
Timings for the hardware are fine as they are :) No need to adapt it to Pentagon.
Just wanted to know if there are any demos specificially for the Scorpion that won't run on Sinclair/Pentagon machines.
Timings on the Scorpion actually differ from the Sinclair machines, in that all RAM is "fast RAM" while the lower memory page on the Sinclair Spectrum is contended and therefore slower.

krotan
21.05.2019, 12:33
I think this applies only to the ZX Spectrum 48. In the Spectrum 128 and later there are differences.
In yellow scorpion, all memory is completely slow.
A green scorpion has all its memory fast.

Павел Рябцов
07.07.2019, 21:22
Нашел старые файлы, всё исправил, завтра закину в производство, цвет маски черный, без золота.

zx_
10.07.2019, 11:10
Павел Рябцов, новая тема появилась , тайминги пентагона на скорпе
https://zx-pk.ru/threads/30668-scorpion-turbo-s-pentagonovskimi-tajmingami.html

доработочку бы

Павел Рябцов
10.07.2019, 11:21
Павел Рябцов, новая тема появилась , тайминги пентагона на скорпе
https://zx-pk.ru/threads/30668-scorpion-turbo-s-pentagonovskimi-tajmingami.html

доработочку бы

Ну кто хочет тот и доработает) Я точно не буду этим заниматься.... платы уже сделаны, едут в Китай на склад.

zx_
10.07.2019, 11:28
Павел Рябцов, не, в смысле экспериментальную версию замутить

Павел Рябцов
10.07.2019, 12:02
Павел Рябцов, не, в смысле экспериментальную версию замутить

Тем более....

Evgeny Muchkin
10.07.2019, 17:05
Павел Рябцов, ну пажалуста.

Gutten
10.07.2019, 18:08
А если не экспериментальную плату с доработками, а отдельную платку для подключения проводками к материнке?

Shockwav3
06.10.2019, 16:09
I'm unsure about a few parts that need to be placed

VT10 = KT361G? (schematics mention a KT209, but the footprint is wrong)
VT9 = ???

Also, the diodes seem to have changed largely ... I assume no value means KS522, while there are some KS156 and KS168

andreysur
06.10.2019, 17:30
How to fit V10 KT209 (BC557) - look photo. V9 - KT361. Diodes KD522 (not KS). I think, KS168 instals only for protection purpose. You should use for assembling a diagram from that page https://zx-pk.ru/threads/30735-ispravlennaya-montazhka-dlya-scorpion-zs-256-turbo-black-edition.html

70259

Shockwav3
27.10.2019, 03:43
Are any fixes needed with D59?
Pin20 which should be VCC is connected to nothing as it seems.

andreysur
28.10.2019, 13:46
Yes, same fault on my PCB. There are many mistakes. Give me, please, more time, I'll try to find out, if someone has got working PCB.

Shockwav3
28.10.2019, 18:03
So far quite a lot of the machine is working for me.
I'm currently having troubles reading/writing real disks. From the Professional Monitor attempting to format a disk results in all sectors ending up as "bad" when checking (the computer hangs there for 1-2 minutes before proceeding to the next track). Disk select, motor and step controls work. The KR1818VG93 gets 11.8V under load (had to adjust the coil to 22uH), problems stay the same with a MB8877. The drive/disks has been used reliably with my Pentagon in the past.

Otherwise Video & sound output, bootup, professional monitor, SMUC, keyboard, etc. are working.

andreysur
28.10.2019, 21:51
My PCB not assembled yet, so, I can't help you. Did you fit smd diode on the bottom side of PCB?

70511

Shockwav3
28.10.2019, 22:03
Where is that one located on the 2019 board? In case it's the one that goes to the 22v10 GAL or the KS156, yup I did fit those.

andreysur
28.10.2019, 22:13
I've got 2018 edition PCB. Did you get yours PCB from Pavel Raybcov? Do you have circuit diagram for that machine?

Shockwav3
28.10.2019, 22:20
Yeah, I got the PCB from him.
I'm currently working with the original Turbo+ schematics by black_cat (the one with the epm plds and prom).

andreysur
28.10.2019, 22:47
Anode of SMD diode connected to 24 pin of CPU (WAIT-), stil can't trace link for cathode, seems to be VD2 КД522 on diagram. Try to check yourself!

Shockwav3
29.10.2019, 00:18
That will be connected to one of the 22v10 GALs (the one programmed with turbo.jed)

Shockwav3
31.10.2019, 20:52
How to fit V10 KT209 (BC547)[/url]

70259This is incorrect, it should be a BC557 (PNP just like KT209)

andreysur
31.10.2019, 22:26
Sorry, it's my mistake! Fixed it.

Shockwav3
03.11.2019, 19:57
so ... what would be the best way to get a classic GS PCB (not NeoGS, not the one by Micklab)?

Evgeny Muchkin
13.11.2019, 22:59
Shockwav3, https://zx-pk.ru/threads/6007-general-sound-(skhema).html